I’m talking about hidden ownership and the convenience trap. I’m talking about paying for shipping, and taking the extra 1-2 minutes to fill out your shipping & billing addresses on websites that are not Amazon. And maybe even talking about making an effort to visit independent pharmacies if you are so lucky to live in a city that has options other than CVS or Walgreens.

The irony about this rant is that if you’re subscribed to this newsletter, you likely already care. You already care about independent businesses and the real people behind them who dedicate themselves to making their own great. If you come across this on Substack, you’re likely already someone who values literacy, curiosity, and maybe even doing something enriching. Odds are you don’t need a random person to tell you that a very small number of corporations (read: 12) dominate a huge portion of consumer goods. And you definitely don’t need me to lead you down a rabbit hole spiraling about the ethics of behind some of these “Big 12” (Amanda Lee Burket wrote an excellent newsletter on that if you do want to dive into that head first).

For my New Yorkers, let me remind you that we have approximately 2,500 to 2,600 pharmacies across all five boroughs. Roughly 2,000 of these are independent. Many of them are even family-owned neighborhood staples that have been operating for decades. You do not need to be visiting a haunted Duane Reade for your razor blades, they are available at Pasteur Pharmacy (and may have even been made exclusively for Pasteur). You do not need to order those Q-tips on Amazon, they are available at NYC’s oldest apothecary, C.O. Bigelow. Your toothpaste is available at Oak Park Pharmacy, located amongst an impressively extensive selection of other salves. At Church Park Pharmacy, you do not need to ring a bell and wait for an associate to come and hand you body wash that’s been locked up like a felon.

There are no tattered, depressing gray carpets on the floor of Thompson Chemists. There is a bright, green, neon facade. Artwork from local artists and neighbors fill the front windows. Papier-mâché puppets, designed by the owner’s friend, the late Edward Lee, hang from the ceilings. I have yet to make a visit where owners and alchemists, Gary and Jolie (better known as Mama J), are not there to greet me and help me find what I’m looking for. Their team is happy to be there. So happy that they seem to stay after work on the “second, third, and magical fifth Tuesday” of each month, to enjoy the Thompson Street Medicine show, a live bluegrass performance that’s been running for over a decade. Sometimes, the staff even perform with the band.

Thompson Chemists has a selection of products that are worth wandering around the small storefront for 20+ mins looking at and admiring (I speak from experience). There is a french nasal spray perfect for allergy season that I have yet to find anywhere else in the city (or on Amazon). You might walk in looking for replacement razor heads for your existing Gillette razor (owned by big boy Procter & Gamble) and walk out with their custom Thompson Chemists razor, neon green, logo etched in.

If you buy the razor, Mama J might throw in some blades for free, and give you a lesson on how to change out the blades safely before you leave, because she is a mother and she cares.

Even if you don’t live in the neighborhood, you might end up finding yourself making your way there between 6-8 PM on one of those magical Tuesday evenings for the hit of dopamine that comes along with the feeling of their community. They might have a bunch of Hamburger America and beers they’re sharing with those who might want to sip or snack while they hangout and enjoy the show. You’ll strike up conversation with the neighbors, and learn that the man who lives in the apartment across the street, leaves his window open so that his cat Luigi can come out onto the balcony and enjoy the show too.

You can sit down on one of the neon green wooden benches or metal folding chairs they set out front and take a hit of a joint the man on your right offers you. He’s been coming for years and occasionally performs with the band. Perhaps you noticed that the employee who sold you the french nasal spray is up there singing with them this week.

When the band comes outside to perform the Thompson Street Medicine Show song, everyone will smile, sing, clap, and twirl. You’ll decide it makes sense that this pharmacy has merch, and you’re not leaving without some on your next visit. Next week, you’ll come for Q-tips AND a baby pink strappy tank top, hoping that this will summon the NYC weather gods to bring us a bit of tank top weather every now and then.

There is something utterly magical about the power of the community event. The recipe is really so simple… it leaves me wondering why we work so hard to make it all so overly complicated sometimes? If you have a Ventriloquist recommendation, can you please send it my way? I’m working on something.

Thanks for spending some of your Monday with me, and don’t forget! Fuck Jeff Bezos.

I had been to the four-story masonry building on West 17th Street once before. I buzz into the Dutch orange and taffy pink Flatiron structure again, climbing a flight of steps, before arriving at Surrender Dorothy on the second floor.

On my first visit, one third of the shop’s owners, Ruby — a redhead with hair reminiscent of the second-floor walls — greeted me. We broke into conversation as if we had been friends for years. I left enchanted, feeling certain that she must always have that effect on people. On my second visit, I was delighted that another third of the shop’s owners, Leah, had left me feeling exactly the same.

Leah lets me into the emerald-green store and tells me she’s just taken a red-eye back from Los Angeles, where she’s been working on a film. They comprise two-thirds of Surrender Dorothy, with the third being another best friend, Arabella. Arabella went to school in London to study historical costume, and is the one responsible for a large portion of their curated and incredibly ornate vintage and archival theatre and costume pieces for sale.

The girls didn’t draw up Surrender Dorothy to come to fruition the way that it did, but when teaching an acting class at the theatre on the third floor of the building (did I mention the building also has a theatre??), the owner told them about the second floor space available for rent, they thought they might as well give it a try. The three of them have been theatre friends forever; it just made sense.

Thinking about how a business run by myself and two of my closest friends would go over, I ask about the intricacies of day-to-day operations. They’re evolving as they go and have a lot of exciting plans down the line for both in-store events and the use of the theatre upstairs. Leah says it’s cool to see how into the business element of it Arabella and Ruby are getting. “We’re going to begin renting, too, because we realized how rare some of the pieces we have actually are.” We laugh about their triumphant celebration after finally selling one of their most expensive vintage pieces… only to realize the profit is fairly minor compared to their overhead.

Arabella, Leah, and Ruby are so vibrantly creative in their own ways. From last Fall when I first visited, to this Spring, the space has evolved into something (somehow) even more special. Leah lounges on one of the couches and answers all my questions as I teeter around the store like a caffeinated toddler, asking about everything I touch. I ask about the dollhouse displays, which have also expanded since my first visit.

The original dollhouse was found on the side of the road by Ruby during a time Leah was mourning a relationship that was no longer working for her or her partner, she tells me. “I was basically gearing up to leave New York, get married, and move to the English countryside.” The mission was ultimately abandoned, but in comes Ruby with this old dollhouse she had just found, suggesting that Leah decorates it, just as she had planned to do with her English country home. Leah laughs, “that’s not really how it works, but I still did it anyway.” She confirms that it was therapeutic, and she’s since moved on. Um… hello, gorgeous fucking friendship??? Take notes.

During my first visit, Ruby loquaciously walked me through every fragrance they had, the way I imagine a sommelier walks customers through a wine menu at a Michelin-star restaurant. I could not resist purchasing Tragedy, a perfume oil she created with perfumer Marissa Zappas, and an ode to the Coronet Theater in Los Angeles that Ruby’s father ran, and the one that she grew up in. It was also the title of her one-woman show, an ode to every failed actress, theater-haunting ghost, and life cut short in these haunted spaces. An homage to the tragic women she worshipped as a child, it has notes of tuberose, orange flower, fir balsam, sandalwood and oakmoss.

This visit, I had my eye on a pair of Pristine rhinestone underwear in the same color as Liana Satenstein’s sold-out Cleo x Neverworns Tee in splash — or rather, “that cerulean” — a color that you should expect to begin seeing everywhere, if you haven’t already. I was torn between those: a 1/1 hand-drawn creamy long-sleeve fromsamira top, or an erotic red latex mini-dress created for Surrender Dorothy by Shoshana Kessler of Monique Fei.

The vintage, designers, and brands the shop girls have curated to retail in the space make the experience spectacular. Once I’m done pacing the store and touching every item and material as if my life depended on it, the artwork reaches and demands my attention, just as their juicy emerald walls did. The pieces were created by Leah’s father. She tells me that he was a musician in a band (read: legend), and the art pieces were merely a hobby he enjoyed creating on the side. Pathologically obsessed with dressing up in costume and raised by incredibly chic parents, these girls are absolute artists.

Ladies, I went with the 1-800-vacation blue underwear. Leah calls Ruby to ask her the specifics while she’s ringing me up, because she can’t find what they have been labeled in Square to process the transaction. “You’re on speaker with our customerrrr,” she warns Ruby while I laugh. Ruby informs us that are labeled as knickers, of course! “These girls,” Leah says with a smirk and tone of endearment, referring to Arabella and Ruby’s antics. Shortly after, a friend stops by and brings Leah a brie-and-olive baguette sandwich from a nearby bakery.

The three of us plop down onto the two couches, each of us tuckered out from our solo endeavors. Leah is still recovering from the almost two-hour conversation she had with a customer she met earlier that morning, before I strolled in. Her friend and I bond over the $3-5/month we each earn from our Substacks. Leah contemplates a nap later in her evening as she has promised Henry (one of her bandmates) that she’ll bring him to the SNL show later that night (Jack White hosted by Jack Black, if you were wondering).

I leave, anticipating my next return.

In my last newsletter, I touched on some recent exciting news from the NYC Mayor’s Office, about an executive order that will make it easier for small businesses to thrive in New York. But I know that politics are not why you’re here. So why am I still hung up on this? Because Mr. Zohran Mamdani decided to sign this executive order at a locally owned bakery in Cypress Hills, Brooklyn. I put my investigative journalist hat on (rather, my “curious b*tch who wants to find out” cap came out), and I made my way to Sweets & Things, because I felt there was some biz there that needed to be covered.

Yesenia welcomes me as I walk in; she’s posted up at a hightop adjacent to the POS (point of sale, for anyone who isn’t a biz head…), where her team is slinging coffees and sweet treats for their customers. I order an espresso, and the barista asks if it’s okay if it takes a few minutes because coffee can be finicky in this cold weather (we were one day out from a record-breaking snowstorm in NYC, after all). I tell her that it’s absolutely fine, because we all know good things take time. I head over to speak with Yesenia.

EMMA: I had no idea that the temperature outside could affect the coffee… inside.

YESENIA: Oh, yes. When it’s this cold outside, it can lower the water temperature inside. We have to make sure the water is the right temperature first; otherwise, it won’t extract the oils from the beans properly, and could make a weak cup. Coffee is picky like that. The beans also need to be kept at perfect room temperature; not too hot, not too cold.

EMMA: Coffee is so demanding!! Was it always a part of Sweets & Things?

YESENIA: No, I added it once I decided to go brick-and-mortar. Since 2018, I was making limited edition drops of tres leches and delivering them around the city, or bringing them to a pop-up. Just over a year ago, I finally decided to go all-in and open the store. I left my job at the DOT, and went all-in. I added coffee because I needed something for the everyday customers, something to offer in addition to the sweets. I immediately knew I wanted the coffee to come directly from the Dominican Republic; I knew it would be my niche.

EMMA: Ok, tell me more about the period from 2018-2025… You were making everything out of your kitchen?!

YESENIA: Oh yes, I would make hundreds of tres leches (jarred, at the time) in my own kitchen, and deliver them with my car all over the city. I had four different fridges in my apartment… god bless my fiancé for putting up with everything during that time. Tres leches also needs to be kept cold, so I needed coolers for the car deliveries and pop-ups.

EMMA: So you’re an event producer, just like me! From one producer to another… it is hard, physical, work. Long days, I assume.

YESENIA: Oh yes, I remember one time I was going to a pop-up on Governors Island. I had to load everything into my car, haul it onto the ferry, set it up on the island, and then pack it hours later and do the same to get it back home. Luckily, my son was there to help me that day, but most of the time I did it all myself. All while working my full-time job at the DOT.

EMMA: How did you finally decide to make the jump to open something brick and mortar in Cypress Hills?

YESENIA: This is my neighborhood, born and raised. I always knew it would be here. I had been gaining some popularity through social media, and I couldn’t do it out of my own kitchen anymore. Once, I went to a meet & greet to see Cardi B, and she said, “I know who you are… you’re that Tres Leches Cake girl!” I was totally in shock. I could not believe she knew who I was. I couldn’t use my phone in the moment, but once it was over, I immediately called my sister. I was literally shaking.

EMMA: Cardi is such a real New Yorker… I adore her. Do you like Ice Spice?

YESENIA: Yeah, I like her too.

EMMA: Have you seen the music video for Thootie, the song she just came out with Tokischa?

YESENIA: I haven’t yet! I like Tokischa a lot, too. She’s controversial for some because of her sexuality, and some of her lyrics are… well, naughty. Lol. But I don’t mind it. Whatever works for people, as long as they get to do their thing. I mean hey, the girl has a song with Madonna… so clearly, it’s working!

EMMA: You need to see the music video; it is so rich and vibrant. It’s also very fun. And naughty! I’m an Ice Spice stan, if you can’t tell by my keychain…

YESENIA: I love charms. I’m actually working on an event with CharCharms; they’re coming to the shop on February 7th, from 2-6 PM. The first 100 guests can decorate their water bottle for free and build their own CharCharms bundle. I love collaborating with other businesses. Something I look forward to doing more of. CharCharms is so cute, let me show you.

EMMA: Collabs are so smart, they keep things fresh and exciting for everyone. Speaking of fresh… how often do you switch up the tres leches flavors on your menu?

YESENIA: The possibilities are endless! Our Ube one is the one that made us go viral, but our original tres leches — The Cuatro Leches — is one I always keep on the menu no matter what. That and cookies & cream.

EMMA: Alright, I’m ordering. This is an integral part of journalism…

YESENIA: Girl, you need to.

EMMA: Raspberry champagne… if only you had a liquor license. You could offer it with a small flute of champagne for those who are feeling fun and bubbly.

YESENIA: I actually have my full liquor license already. We sell small-batch drops of coquito. They sell out really quickly, but I think I have one left. Hennessy.

EMMA: Oh my god. You sell Coquito?!! This is going to be huge news for my fam around the holidays…

EMMA: This is incredible, and definitely part of your niche. You have your full liquor license. You could be the city’s first coquito bar… or speakeasy!

YESENIA: It’s not off the table. But right now, I’m just focusing on what we have going on here already. I go to the DR to purchase the beans directly from a farm. I’m actually going for another trip next week. We bring beans back and then transport them to a facility in the Bronx that roasts them for us. The facility stores them for us, then roasts and delivers them to the shop in 50-lb batches, always freshly roasted.

EMMA: I cannot even imagine what kind of impact tariffs have had on your business…

YESENIA: Absolute nightmare. When I started, beans cost $2.50-$3.50/lb. Now they’re closer to $7.50/lb. But I’m hopeful that Mamdani can help make some changes so that it isn’t as financially straining to keep a small business running in NYC.

EMMA: Was he as sweet in person as he seems online?

YESENIA: Yes, very. It was so exciting to have him here. As a proud Latina and Dominican small business owner, the moment meant so much to me. He was here with NYS Senator Julia Salazar and Brooklyn Council Member Sandy Nurse. Their office is around the corner, and they come in all the time. We’re girls.

Before I leave, I give Yesenia a hug and thank her for giving me the time to meet and discuss everything she’s built over the last few years. She says, “The journey has not always been easy, but I wouldn’t change a single thing.”

I urge you to explore new parts of the city you haven’t been to. Sweets & Things is merely a few miles away from my Aunt & Uncle's neighborhood in Queens, which I’ve been visiting my whole life, and I had never been. Make the effort! Stop inside stores or restaurants you pass by that you’ve never been to. Support small businesses and New Yorkers.

I reminded myself that this newsletter isn’t just dependent on me, but also on the businesses and real people I’m looking to connect with. I sat eagerly, trying to figure out what interview I could make happen on the spot and then turn around in a day. Bonus points if the business was based in a part of the city I hadn’t yet published about. I thought about a clothing store I visited on a whim last month, where the store owner (and only working employee) reminded me of my mom, striking up easy, casual conversation and telling me all about what it was like in New York during the 80’s.

So, with less than 24 hours before my fictional deadline, I set out to return to that store. What transpired was a good lesson and a great conversation.

I ring a small doorbell to enter; the owner buzzes me in. She is already mid-stride, fully immersed in conversation with two other customers. She works me into the conversation, so the four of us chat just as effortlessly as she did the last time I visited. After the other two customers check out, we continue the conversation, just the two of us. For this interview, I did not record anything or take any pictures. Everything below is “(Emma’s Version),” if you will.

[REDACTED]: So all I wanted was one donut hole; $0.75. I went to give them the dollar, and they said card only. I’ve run into this issue with other coffee shops in this area, too. Just tapping your card completely eliminates the entire exchange with the person working there!

EMMA: Everyone is so dissociated. The worst is people wearing their AirPods everywhere, never pausing to take them out or actually interacting with the human helping them.

[REDACTED]: Apparently, they just passed a bill to help alleviate that, but we’ll see.

EMMA: You probably don’t remember me, but I’ve been here before. I had such a great conversation with you that I wanted to come back to see if you’d be interested in having [REDACTED] featured in my newsletter on Substack about business owners and their experiences owning and operating businesses in New York.

She goes on to tell me that she doesn’t understand Substack and, quite frankly, doesn’t like being on social media or online much at all. She says I am welcome to write about the store, take pictures of it… but she doesn’t like personal info about herself or pictures of her online. She makes the excellent point that she works at her shop day in and day out. It’s unsettling for her to think about anyone reading about her and then coming into the shop to find her at any time during operating hours. I totally respect and understand this boundary. I ask if I can still stay to chat with her for the newsletter, without recording anything or publishing any names.

She smiles, “Of course.” She’s witty and deeply observant. Even while I’m in the fitting room, we’re talking back and forth over the wall about work, the city, about how strange everything feels right now.

EMMA: How long has the shop been at this spot?

[REDACTED]: Seven or eight years. The store itself has been open for a few decades. Before that, I was in [a redacted part of New York that is too far west for my personal taste]. Everything in here is from independent designers all over the world. Greece, Italy, Poland… lots of one-of-ones. There are almost 300 individual pieces in here.

EMMA: That explains why it all feels so specific.

[REDACTED]: I don’t understand why everyone cares so much about popularity more than individuality now. I see all these stores online with hundreds of thousands of followers. They’re all selling the same things.

She doesn’t say this bitterly. Just matter-of-fact.

EMMA: I see it in my industry too. Brands will spend insane amounts of money on an event, re-creating the same exact same things that they’ve already seen other brands do.

[REDACTED]: I don’t get it.

She truly doesn’t. And I love her for it. We talk about the neighborhood and how many of the independent shops that once surrounded it are gone. The few that are hanging on quietly. She hopes that Mamdani can help address the needs of small businesses that keep New York creative. Most truly individual businesses are being driven out by bigger brands. She doesn’t even know where to recommend people to shop in this area anymore.

INTERRUPTING FOR SOME BIZNESS NEWS:

After chatting for a while, [REDACTED] understands what I’m trying to do with the newsletter, and she even pauses to think about some other shop owners and vendors who might be a right fit for me to interview for the newsletter.

EMMA: I think a lot of people are scared right now. Especially the real New Yorkers who may have immigrated here, or family who immigrated here, forever ago. It feels safer to stay quiet right now.

She nods and says, “I guess the people who actually want press, already have it.”

I realize that she is not refusing because she doesn’t believe in the work. She’s refusing because she believes in privacy. I end up buying a pair of pants I probably wouldn’t have bought otherwise, and spend more than I planned. I don’t regret it for a second. That money is going to an independent designer. And to a woman who has kept a shop alive for almost three decades. Plenty of my money gets pissed away at way worse corporations.

As I leave, I clock her outfit one more time. The color of her hair matched her shirt. I won’t share any additional details to maintain her privacy, but all you need to know is that she looked fucking cool.

Here’s to staying quiet in 2026 if you feel like it. Here’s to the people who don’t need press and are still doing the work. If you’re reading this and you do want to talk (bonus points if you let me publish your business name), reach out. I’m here to connect with New Yorkers, not just record them.

EMMA: I love that you write a Substack alongside running your business. It feels very on-brand.

DYLAN: Totally. I do something some people don’t fully understand, which is fine, but there’s only so much you can explain in an Instagram post. Substack lets me actually teach. When people ask what cupping is, I can write an article about it. Share it with them.

EMMA: And you get to be creative with it. Your TCM chicken toast recipe was such a hit.

DYLAN: That’s exactly why I did it. Writing helped me learn how to condense information without lecturing. I was like, let’s do something that feels interactive and makes Chinese medicine accessible. It’s also easier to remember what kind of foods you should eat in the winter when you have this recipe.

EMMA: So you’re on Substack, you’re on Instagram. But there’s also Dylan Spencer, LAc, and Bitter Melon Botanicals. How did that split happen?

DYLAN: The tinctures actually came first. I started them ten years ago, when I was still in school. They changed a lot over time, and I only finalized the formulas in the last couple of years. Once I realized they were a real product, I knew they needed a real name. That’s where Bitter Melon Botanicals came from.

DYLAN: After school, I worked at a fertility clinic in Seattle. IVF, IUI, postpartum. I knew I would eventually want to do my own thing, but it’s essential when you learn a trade like this to work for someone first to understand how a practice actually works.

EMMA: Totally. Learning the unglamorous stuff matters.

DYLAN: Finances, insurance, systems. The “boring” aspects of the business. I was intrigued to learn more about. I stayed for five years, then left to start my own practice.

EMMA: Five years makes you a total veteran in 2024.

DYLAN: laughs. It does. Acupuncturists can go down either lane. They either have a brand or they’re a sole practitioner. I wanted to make it a brand so that eventually other things would grow from it and not be solely my practice.

EMMA: That’s the beauty of it. If you ever needed to, you could be like, you know what?
I’m going to lean more into the tinctures this year. If you ever need a break, or god forbid you get sick with the flu…

I say this only because this is our rescheduled session, since the last one we BOTH canceled. We were down bad with what turned out to be the flu. NYC Flu heads stand up. One time for my holiday season warriors.

EMMA: When you brought the tinctures back, you rebranded them, too.

DYLAN: Yeah. My friend Sean Kennedy designed them. I wanted something that didn’t look like every other tincture label. No moons, no stars, no dried herbs. I wanted people to stop when they saw it on a shelf and think, What is that? I wanted aesthetic control. That’s the whole reason I do my own thing now.

EMMA: It worked. I spotted Energy Boost at Dimes Market and immediately went down the rabbit hole. I booked a session with you first, then bought Anxiety Soother and Deep Sleep. Crushed both.

DYLAN: That’s exactly why the tinctures exist. They pull people in.

EMMA: Which tincture was first? And which one sells the most?

DYLAN: Anxiety Soother was the first. That’s the OG, the one that started it all. It became the catalyst when I was first trying to find something for myself. As for the most popular? It’s a complex question because it changes every six months. I track it on my website.

EMMA: What an incredible mirror into how we’re doing as a society. <3

DYLAN: Completely. Deep Sleep is the top seller right now. Not energy… sleep. Maybe anxiety and burnout are catching up with people. Digest also does really well in winter. People are overeating, hungover. You know.

EMMA: I was going to say… Hangover Cure.

EMMA: When clients come in, how do tinctures fit into treatment?

DYLAN: I recommend herbs and supplements to almost everyone now. I actually raised my rates in the last six months, so herbs are included, no add-ons. I just want to do it for everyone. And people are down for that because they trust how I practice. So it’s honestly all over the map. I have a practitioner website I prescribe things with, and I do herb prescriptions.

EMMA: Supplements are a wholeeeee thing.

DYLAN: I’m a supplement head, obviously.

EMMA: You have special knowledge that people will pay to have access to.

DYLAN: (laughs)

ME: (means it)

DYLAN: I also used to manage purchasing for an apothecary in Seattle, so I’ve seen everything. I even do supplement cabinet consults, because most people don’t even know what they’re buying. Instagram ads, Erewhon culture… everyone’s looking for “the cure” that fixes everything. Sea moss always comes back every few years. It’s great, but it doesn’t do everything.

DYLAN: My biggest advice is simple: basic vitamins? Buy cheap. Vitamin D, C, B12, etc. The dosage matters more than the brand. Save your money for niche supplements. My favorite brand ever is Gaia. It’s a large, popular brand, and they really are the best. The herbs used in the formulas are simple but effective. They’re awesome.

My other piece of advice is not to take too many either! A human can only digest so many supplements in a day. You will be wasting your money if you’re taking too many, or too many at once. Your body can’t digest all of that.

EMMA: Or you’re just giving yourself new problems.

DYLAN: Exactly. Most people hate this part of the cabinet consults, but I’ll usually end up taking like half of their cabinet away, haha. I always help them find a way to repurpose, either for occasional use or to give to someone they know with different symptoms.

EMMA: So then my question… since we both just had the flu. What was your go-to, or what did you add into the mix that you don’t usually for yourself, supplement-wise?

DYLAN: I like to say I am a supplement head, although I’m conservative day-to-day. But when you’re sick? Throw everything in. Activate the immune system. Go all in. Chinese herbs first. Yin Qiao San. Lots of tea with elderberry and echinacea.

EMMA: When I was sick, I lined up all the tea I had in my cabinet on my countertop and was like, “I’m going to see if I can drink 8 cups of tea today.” I drank 4.

DYLAN: And you’re still hydrating while you do it! The other thing I always do when I’m sick is I make a herbal bone broth. It doesn’t need to be a meal. I’ll drink it right from a mug. Winter is the best time for it.

EMMA: Would you ever want a brick-and-mortar, or do you love the fact that you’re in control of your own schedule with client appointments right now?

DYLAN: I’ve gone back and forth. Back in the day, I loved working at the apothecary and totally wanted to have one myself. The owner even tried to sell it to me at one point, but I wasn’t ready yet (and in my early 20s). But acupuncture is my focus. It’s sustainable, it’s what I love most. I think the older I get, the quieter I want things to be. Private practice lets me spend real time with people. That’s why I now do hour-and-some-change sessions with herbal consultations. I want to get to know people. I want to know what’s actually going on.

EMMA: And you get to control the full experience.

DYLAN: Exactly. The aesthetics of the functional medicine world can be so corny. It really hurts me. I want to honor Chinese medicine while also recognizing that I’m doing my own thing.

EMMA: No, that’s great. Your own thingggg is why we’re here. And clearly it’s been going well because we’re here in Ridgewood, but you also have another space in FiDi, where people can see you, too, which I think is great. Although I all say the sparkly ceiling in Queens is a must…

DYLAN: Yeah, and it’s been great to be more central. My next step is figuring out whether to do full-time in FiDi, keep this for my Ridgewood people, or eventually have a larger space where I could see two clients at once. That would be my next level up in another few years or so.

EMMA: And then you could sell supplements at the front!

DYLAN: And I would have somebody doing booking for me. I’m getting close to that.

EMMA: That’s a wholeeee thing. Trying to figure out if it will be worth it to pay someone to give yourself more time to... work. :’)

DYLAN: That’s what the business stuff is. You have to keep making this awkward jump and seeing what happens. Which is what I just did with the FiDi office, and it paid off.

EMMA: I’m always team jump. What do they say… If you don’t jump, you can’t fly? There’s beauty in autonomy. You get to dictate the experience everyone gets when they come here.

DYLAN: Exactly. There will always be pros and cons, but I am not an Earth sign. I have a lot of fire; I get shit done. And every time I work with somebody, nobody can get things done as quickly as I need them to…

Dylan and I share the same (possibly a bit of a crazy person) laugh because I can RELATE.

EMMA: That’s how I am. It’s not OCD, it’s not perfectionist. But. I will freak out.

DYLAN: We know what we like. We want to make it happen; we don’t want to wait around.

My squirrel brain moves around the room, and then I find myself standing in front of a large piece of artwork.

EMMA: I love this art. Who made this?

DYLAN: My friend Parker made it! I’m always trying to find things that aren’t just medicinal.

EMMA: That’s a huge part of your specialty. What the client is getting when they come to see you.

EMMA: Anything upcoming that you’re excited about or want to mention?

DYLAN: I’m so… happy December’s over.

We both share another crazy person’s laugh, followed by a sigh of relief.

DYLAN: I did a class at Sky Ting, holiday markets, stocked Tangerine, OPC, Dimes Market. A lot wrapped up at once. Next year, I want to collaborate more on Substack and take some more traditional classes to bring some new ideas into the practice. Oh! And we’re shooting a small promo for the tinctures in January.

EMMA: Big fan of that, obviously. Can’t wait to see your creative direction.

DYLAN: Acupuncture will always be my focus, but the tinctures definitely help.

EMMA: It’s fun to flex other muscles. I’m excited to see it all in action. I’m also excited to buy a couple more tinctures right now before I leave.

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EMMA: Roosevelt Roofing.

JOE: Started in 1929.

EMMA: Oh, I know, I do my homework. One of the oldest and most respected roofing companies in New York.

JOE: I bought it in 2007. I was working at Mercedes-Benz at the time.

EMMA: What made you want to buy a roofing company?

JOE: I didn’t think I could make more money at Mercedes, and I was looking for a business where I could make a living. I had young kids and wanted to buy a house.

EMMA: How did you know the business was for sale? Did you know the person who owned it?

JOE: A friend of mine was in the roofing business, and he heard through the grapevine that the business owner was selling his business. He thought it’d be a good idea to grab it, since it had been around for so many years, and it just happened to be in the neighborhood where I was born and raised.

EMMA: Which is…

JOE: Woodside, Queens. On Roosevelt Avenue.

EMMA: Under the 7 Train.

JOE: Yes. And so was Roosevelt Roofing, up until about 1980.

EMMA: Did you know about the company when you bought it?

JOE: I had seen it around, yeah.

EMMA: Would you say that it’s a pretty good career move for someone to buy an existing business? If they can.

JOE: It’s terrifying. But you do what you have to do to figure it out.

Joe trails off into some laughter, and then some dogs break out into loud barking. I yell at them to knock it off, don’t they know I’m conducting an INTERVIEW here?

EMMA: In theory, isn’t it also scary because, why are they selling the business? Is it doing poorly?

JOE: No, he was just getting older.

EMMA: Did you absorb all his clients?

JOE: They came naturally because he had a great reputation. Initially, some people would ask about him. I got sued half a dozen times.

EMMA: Sued?!

JOE: From some old disgruntled customers, which I ended up having to pay for. To people I never even met.

I let out a laugh, not just because I always laugh in uncomfortable situations, but because Joe keeps his tone light-hearted. He’s one of those guys from Queens who somehow manages to keep the delivery funny, even when he is talking about getting sued.

EMMA: And there’s no way around that? You can’t say, “I didn’t do this?”

JOE: There is a way around, except I didn’t know it at the time. So when I bought his business, I kept his business name. That means I also bought his assets and liabilities, too. Now, I know better. Next time I buy a business, I’ll close the business. Then rename it, and keep the phone number.

EMMA: Wow. That’s wild. But I look at your logo now, and I still see a little bit of some inspiration from their original Tin Man.

JOE: He’s actually The Iron Man, and he was around before the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz Movie.

EMMA: Nofuckingway.

JOE: Yeah. The Iron Man has become very recognizable to the residents who commuted on the 7 train in the 80s. He used to be on the roof of the old office on 55th Street, waving hello to the people passing by on the train. He was there until the late 80s, and then moved to 7107 Woodside Avenue. In 2008, he moved to our office in Maspeth, where he currently resides.

EMMA: A local celebrity! Ok, so we have our Iron Man in your logo, and the font?

JOE: That’s the Iron Maiden font. And one of my vans has it in the Metallica font.

EMMA: Do you do most of your business in Queens?

JOE: Yes. We mostly do houses, but we also do commercial buildings.

EMMA: Ok, then here’s a question. I don’t own a home, and I’m a long-time renter; I have no idea what these things cost. How much would it cost to redo the whole roof of an average-sized house in Queens? Let’s say a mid-grade shingle. Nothing super fancy, but nothing cheap.

JOE: Well, shingles are different. The typical average-sized house you see in Queens would probably be about $10,000, a little more.

EMMA: Alright, not horrible. Do you find it more efficient to do lots of houses at once? Or are you excited when you get a corporate project with a huge roof?

JOE: It can go both ways. With houses, you typically get paid in 1-2 days, in and out. With corporate or bigger jobs, they pay on a different schedule. It could be Net30 or Net60. You gotta wait for your money. I’ve always wanted to do city jobs, but they could take a very long time to pay. And their insurance requirements are so astronomical that very few companies can afford those policies. You need workers’ compensation, liability insurance.

EMMA: Oh yeah, true… because of that whole men on the roof thing.

JOE: Yes, and people can fall.

EMMA: Coming back to our theoretical house, our $10,000 job. How many men does it take to do that?

JOE: I can have it done in two days, with four guys.

EMMA: All right, and how does shitty weather impact the plans?

JOE: It ruins them. If I get a misty, reasonable day, I won’t take a customer’s roof off, but I’ll do other small repairs, like clean gutters, or something else that doesn’t get impacted by water. I’ll bring the trucks in for service, get organized. I’ll find something to do. During the winter, though, if there’s a blizzard, we’re fucked.

EMMA: How often do you get up on a roof?

JOE: Every time.

EMMA: Really? You get up there with the team? Are your best workers young boys or older men?

JOE: Young guys. It’s hard work, man. It’s impossible.

EMMA: And it’s hot as hell, I’m guessing, when it’s good weather.

JOE: It’s horrible. Too hot.

EMMA: What’s the most dangerous accident that you’ve heard about in the industry?

JOE: I’ve heard about people dying. Houses catching on fire.

EMMA: Why fire?

JOE: If you’re using a roofing torch and you make a mistake, you could catch a house on fire.

EMMA: That’s why you need crazy insurance.

JOE: Yeah, and people could fall. Nobody’s gotten hurt with me. But I’ve fallen, and I’ve heard plenty of stories about people falling. Some people fall off the smaller structures because they can get careless.

EMMA: That’s so crazy.

EMMA: So when someone reaches out to you, you go over, do an assessment, give them a quote, they sign off, and you send your dudes, turn it over. That’s the ideal situation.

JOE: That’s the perfect world.

EMMA: In what ways can clients be annoying to you? Like, what does an annoying client do?

JOE: I meet all kinds of people. An annoying client would be somebody who’s doing too much research, looking up everything on the internet. Making something easy, complicated. They throw around a lot of terminology that doesn’t apply, and you can tell when they’re educated off the internet. A lot of silly stuff.

EMMA: You bring up a good point. You have to go to so many people’s homes, not only in New York City but in Queens, of all places.

JOE: Lots of languages, man.

EMMA: Lots of homeowners. When they reach out to you, is it usually the man at the house or the woman at the house who’s reaching out?

JOE: It’s usually the guy.

EMMA: But does the woman come in to pick the color?

JOE: Always.

EMMA: What’s your most popular selling shingle?

JOE: An Owens Corning, a brown shingle. Standard look.

EMMA: What would be a unique or less common one?

JOE: A different shape, something expensive. Something like a scallop. An actual full shingle comes in lots of different shapes and thicknesses, so they have premium ones that are a fortune. Most people around here don’t want that.

EMMA: What about the big boys in Forest Hills?

JOE: There’s one guy who actually does all the houses over there. He’s good at it, ‘cause it’s a landmarked area, and you gotta know how to do it properly.

EMMA: What did popular materials of roofing used to be versus now?

JOE: Well, back then, it was expensive tile. Like the roofing in Forest Hills Gardens. Ludowici tile, it’s called. But now, if you need to do any work there, you have to put the identical tile back, and it comes from Chicago, custom-ordered.

EMMA: Do you have one vendor that you order everything from?

JOE: I have a lot of vendors.

EMMA: Are you friends with any vendors?

JOE: I’m totally friends with one good vendor, and he’s such a great guy that I always buy from him. His name is Steve. He works for ABC Supply.

EMMA: We love Steve at ABC. Shout out Steve at ABC.

JOE: I love Steve at ABC. So I could text him right now, and he’ll get back to me. I can tell him I need something tomorrow, and he’ll get it to me. They’re also all around. This particular one is in Hicksville, Long Island, but they have branches in Brooklyn, Upstate, everywhere. Female-owned company. Australian woman, and one of the richest in the world.

EMMA: What’s the longest amount of time someone’s worked with you? Have you had anyone who’s been with you since the beginning?

JOE: Yes.

EMMA: Do you find that the younger generations are any lazier when it comes to work? Or do you just know how to find those hard-working, resilient Queens kids?

JOE: Some people, by day one, you’ll know if they can make it or not. And most people punch out after one day, they go, “forget this, this is nuts.”

EMMA: Do you ever do any company bonding, holiday parties, or dinners?

JOE: Holiday parties.

EMMA: Where do you host holiday parties? A restaurant?

JOE: Yeah, a nice restaurant, maybe Pio Pio on Northern Boulevard. Somewhere close to an area where most of the team lives. All the guys are Spanish, so they live in Spanish neighborhoods.

EMMA: Do you speak Spanish a lot at work, then?

JOE: Always. I’m Colombian, so I’m fluent. But I pretty much talk about the same things most of the time at work. I’m not having, you know, in-depth conversations.

EMMA: True. Can you throw me a sentence in Spanish that you would say to your workers at the start of the day?

JOE: Mucho cuidado; no se maten; hagan buen trabajo. Good morning; don’t kill yourself; do a good job.

EMMA: I love you boys; you guys are my brothers…

JOE: Safety first.

EMMA: Oh, yeah. What do they have to wear?

JOE: Harnesses, helmets, glasses.

EMMA: Do they ever ever work with their tops off?

JOE: No. Never.

EMMA: Do you?

JOE: Never. You can’t work without a shirt on; you’ll get heatstroke. You’re better off wearing a sweatshirt.

EMMA: What’s next for the business? What’s something on the horizon or something new you’ve been thinking about? Or do you always keep it steady, consistent?

JOE: It’s been pretty consistent. The next step would be taking on bigger commercial jobs, but that requires a huge investment in insurance policies and hiring more people. It’s a big commitment. It’s a lot of stress.

EMMA: Do you feel like you have a good work-life balance right now?

JOE: Yeah, right now I do. But with bigger jobs, you know, comes bigger responsibilities. At the end of the day, I’m responsible for feeding a lot of families.

EMMA: For sure. Steady isn’t a bad thing.

JOE: Exactly.

EMMA: If it’s poor weather conditions outside and your guys can’t do the job, then they don’t have work that day?

JOE: If they don’t have work, then they don’t get paid. But sometimes they might like it, because with a blizzard, they might not work that week, but they know the snow will create a lot of problems for people’s houses and create more work later.

EMMA: What’s the worst thing about your job right now?

JOE: Fines from the city for bullshit.

EMMA: And what’s the best thing about your job right now?

JOE: If I plan accordingly, I could disappear for a few days. If I set everything up properly, then they don’t need me. I could come home, or I could go play golf if I wanted to. I don’t have to ask the boss if I gotta go.

EMMA: All right, perfect. What would you do if your daughter said she wants to get into the family business?

JOE: No. What’s she gonna do? She can’t do what I do.

EMMA: Hahaha ok, love it. That’s a wrap.

EMMA: Ok. From this point on, don’t say anything incriminating. You’re on the record.

ANDREW: Noted.

EMMA: First question: Do you think I’m less legitimate for not having a mini mic?

ANDREW: No, I think you’re very legitimate. Lots of great art gets made on iPhones.

EMMA: Thank you. Let’s talk Devlin’s. I heard you used to work in Finance?

ANDREW: Haha no. Who told you that?

EMMA: I don’t know, I saw a video once…

ANDREW: Sorry. No VC money here. I did have some internships on Wall Street in college. Did not enjoy them.

EMMA: Okay, so, Devlin’s.

ANDREW: Devlin’s started in 2020. I was working at another sound company for eight years. When COVID hit, they laid everybody off (as did most live event companies). So by August 2020, it was just me, consulting on my own. It’s officially “Devlin’s Consulting” because it was supposed to be just me consulting people on my own. And that’s what I did for a few years. But here we are, five years later, and things have snowballed a bit.

EMMA: Is consulting still a big part of the business?

ANDREW: I think so, but I would love to do more. We’re starting to describe ourselves more as a general contractor. We don’t just rent gear. We come to a new or existing space, evaluate it in its entirety, and try to solve any problems. We’re a place where you’re going to receive personalized attention.

EMMA: I’m about to say something triggering… but it’s not just a bunch of “sound guys.”

ANDREW: No. It’s a bunch of “sound boys.”

EMMA: Sir sounds?

ANDREW: Put little respect on their name.

EMMA: All jokes aside, what’s the actual term? Tech?

ANDREW: Depends. Also, I absolutely identify as a “sound guy.” I hope that people read that in a non-gender-normative way.

EMMA: Sound girl?

ANDREW: Sound person. Now you’re really opening up that can of worms.

EMMA: I’ve met so many people who work for you. Rank them from most to least favorite.

ANDREW: I’ll do my best.

EMMA: You can also just tell me: Is being a DJ a requirement?

ANDREW: I’ll do best dressed. Leke. He’s one of my favorite Techs. He also makes music, is a top-tier audio engineer, and wears the flyest gator skin boots. He takes show blacks to a whole new level.

EMMA: Always appreciate someone who understands the assignment. Who’s the tallest?

ANDREW: Stephan. Or Maybe Dan.

EMMA: I wanted to get Stephan into the mix. He’s an OG.

ANDREW: I’ve known Stephan for 10-12 years. In the early days, it was just me, a car, two speakers, and some mics. The first time I got a job bigger than I could handle myself, I called Stephan.

EMMA: Definition OG. You’re like, “I can’t live like this anymore.”

ANDREW: Yeah, and it’s been amazing really. We met through music and DJ’ing, then as an audio tech, and now he’s grown into basically running the whole operation. He’s the best. I love him. Also have to give a big shout-out to Joey and Annie, who have been grinding to keep everything behind the scenes clicking. Would truly be lost without them.

EMMA: I actually went with a bunch of PAs after work once and saw Stephan’s show at Mansions down the street. Incredible. Hasn’t Devlin’s had a staff party at Mansions?

ANDREW: We did our summer barbecue there. The outdoor space is awesome. My wife and I cooked burgers.

EMMA: Shoutout Kat.

ANDREW: Big shoutout Kat. I keep telling myself, I’m going to stop cooking burgers at that place. But… I just keep doing it, and we keep going.

EMMA: Another potential leg for the business.

ANDREW: Yeah, it’s Devlin’s Pub.

EMMA: That’s amazing. You’re pretty serious about your company parties, which I really respect.

ANDREW: Yeah, food and hanging out are a big part of the business’s culture.

EMMA: This is why you’re beloved.

ANDREW: From the beginning, I’ve always been like, “Oh, we’re working in Harlem today? Everyone’s getting Patsy’s.”

EMMA: So, besides burgers, pubs, and pizza… what are the other pillars of Devlin’s Consulting?

ANDREW: Originally: audio, visual, creative, install. The creative part really comes from Level, the party I’ve been doing for 11 years. I learned everything there: sound, lighting, vibes, music. I started that as a warehouse party way before Devlin’s was born. Back then, we’d just rent a woodshop in Bed-Stuy, schlep a bunch of leftover gear, set up a bar, and pray we sold some tickets. We went all out with the bookings, though. One favorite was Antal from Amsterdam, John FM from Detroit, and a young DJ Voices. We would call it “The Level House Party” because the DJ was in one room, but we’d do sound throughout the whole space, so it wasn’t DJ worship vibes. It was for people who are total music/techno heads, and for people who just want to have fun, party, chat, smoke cigarettes, whatever. So yeah, I did the DJ thing for a while, really cut my teeth. It’s definitely a young person’s game. I was risking so much money. Cops.

EMMA: Not sustainable.

ANDREW: If a party flops, you lose lots of money. I started doing Level at clubs, which was cool, but it slowed down around COVID. After 2022, it got a new life, and now we have five resident DJs, including myself, KFeelz, Nigelthreetimes, Yibing, Alien D, and No Sir.

ANDREW: I wrestle with the overlap sometimes. Of, “are people going to take me seriously if I’m a DJ?” Or, “am I getting too into the business to still play a party?”

EMMA: Slippery slope.

ANDREW: I think there’s room for better music and corporate events.

EMMA: 100%. It’s going to take some companies a while to get there, but all it takes is one person willing to try something new once. You’re such a side quest guy. That’s why I knew you’d be a good person to talk to for this. You obviously like to be busy.

ANDREW: I like to be busy. If I stopped doing Level, I’d get depressed. It’s not even a business thing. It’s the community. And honestly, if I die, no one’s going to say, “remember that experiential event he did the sound for?” But they might say, “remember Glen Falls House?”

EMMA: We need community. You have the best community from Level.

ANDREW: So many of my friends and a lot of people who work with me come from Level. It’s also a way to just keep people sustained and support them as artists.

EMMA: What are some memorable events for you or the people you work with?

ANDREW: This summer, Devlin’s did Nike’s “NY vs NY” summer basketball tournament. Our job is basically to make it as lit as possible, so we just bring like the loudest speakers, the best DJ gear. They have these amazing announcers and DJs.

EMMA: Literally my dream summer scenario. Post up by a basketball court and listen to someone yell into a mic. Free entertainment.

ANDREW: You can trail with us next time. We did one at Dyckman, up in the Heights, legendary Streetball Court. There was a Jordan 1-on-1 tournament, and they wanted the whole park red. So we had to rig this crazy lighting design with hundreds of lights that was insane. Luca Doncic showed up. Big day at the office.

EMMA: Legendary for the portfolio. I also want to talk about the limited-edition merch you drop. I once had someone ask me about getting a Devlin’s shirt… for almost a year.

ANDREW: My friend Mauricio has done all of our branding. He’s been a friend of mine for 10 or 15 years. He’s incredible. I dabbled with another designer and took six months of meetings, and I was just like, ‘This doesn’t feel like us.’ It was a good learning experience. It was really hard to bail, go back, call Mauricio again, and be like, “let’s do it.” The name was never going to change. My dad passed in 2019, and Devlin’s felt like a tribute.

EMMA: The family name lives on.

ANDREW: Exactly. We refreshed the brand two years ago. That’s when Mic Guy was born. But design is funny. With the truck, for example, like we obviously know the term “creative director” is played out…

EMMA: Even the word “creative” is very triggering for me.

ANDREW: But it’s been cool learning how to do that for the truck. What do we want the brand to be, what is our vibe, and what does the future look like? It was a really fun project. I’m also colorblind, so choosing the blue… yeah.

EMMA: I love him. It’s genius. It’s perfect. Does Mauricio do the website, too?

ANDREW: Mauricio built the brand, but my friend Jenn handles the website now. I feel super lucky to have access to these very pro, very creative people. And now we’re doing video content, so it’s all steering in the creative direction. To keep doing that in addition to the gear rental.

EMMA: Is the gear your star menu item? High popularity, high profitability? The “coffee.”

ANDREW: The “cheeseburger.” Every week we might do 4-5 DJ activations or panels, and we can do that on our own. But for the fun projects, like the Dyckman thing, we’re bringing in people like Chris Robinson, a lighting designer who works on Hamilton. This company, Crossfire, does a lot of the rigging and gear support, and we’re bringing in video people and sound experts. That’s what I’d like to be doing more of. But yes, the gear rental pays the bills, and I love the clients we do it for. So it’s not dull to me at all.

EMMA: There’s always the projects that come once or so a year that you’re particularly amped on.

ANDREW: Of course. Like, we might do the [REDACTED] afterparty.

EMMA: So sick. Or that one time you worked on the Mercedes-Benz and [REDACTED] shoot…

ANDREW: Yeah! We just did the sound for Blood Orange in September during Fashion Week for a show. We brought in the whole system.

EMMA: WHERE?! [I ask, pissed that I did not hear about it…]

ANDREW: Above the Supreme store. It’s this legendary building on Bowery. There’s a crazy New York Mag article about the last tenants there. That building is gorgeous.

EMMA: I can only imagine.

ANDREW: So that’s another mode we can get into, rather than just a DJ set or a panel. Different questions. What does Dev need? He needs a piano? How does he want the piano mic’d? What monitors? He brought in his own audio engineer to mix his show, then we provide really high-level people who can have that conversation with those engineers. On a side note, that’s a huge focus for us – finding techs with the technical knowledge and ability who can also work on a team and be friendly under pressure. I always tell the team it’s closer to bartending than a tech job, and to approach it as you would any job in hospitality.

EMMA: Selfishly, because you know I love going to shows, I want to hear some of your NY venue takes.

ANDREW: Hmm, that’s a tough one. I do not go to as many shows as you do. These days, I sneak out to see a friend DJ, or I’m cooking at home. But on a business tip, we’ve been working with Boulevard Carroll for L-Acoustics gear and training lately. I was super impressed by their install at Knockdown Center. That’s not an easy room to tune, and I thought they did a great job. And as far as places I just enjoy being in, I do think Mansions is just the most comfortable space. I love the way the sound is dispersed there. You can have a great vibe in the backyard, bar area, or dead center on the dancefloor, and the music always sounds great. Big shout out Jason and Sean for all the work they put in.

EMMA: Are they paying you?? Anyway, anything new (besides the truck) for Devlin’s coming up that you’re excited about, or anything you want to manifest so we can put it out there?

ANDREW: For sure. It feels like next year is going to be a really good one for us. We’re talking about some things in Miami. I’m a big Miami guy, so that’s exciting. I’ve done Miami in small doses, but we’ll see what it’s like for a longer stay.

EMMA: A residency, if you will.

ANDREW: Yeah, Devlin’s South. Maybe South America… I want to do Level DIY parties again.

EMMA: Devliñ’s.

ANDREW: Exactly. Alright, should we go see the truck?

Andrew and I jump in to finish the rest of the interview, Carpool Karaoke style.

Andrew and I bring the truck back to the lot and chat with the attendant. He lets us know that Afrojack came and surprised his daughter by performing a three-hour set at her wedding as a gift. He says she’s only 27, but she’s in charge of everything at large-scale shows and performances. I don’t know who this man’s daughter is, but if you’re reading this, hire Devlin’s.

NAHEE: Three weeks.

EMMA: Not even a month! You need to have a one-month party.

NAHEE: Right now, I’m just focusing on growing this baby. Making sure it can walk, talk…

NAHEE: We opened on the 28th. A Sunday, intentionally. We named it RainySundayMorning house, so we always try to do something on Sundays.

EMMA: So you signed up for busy Sundays when you named it. What do you do typically on Sundays?

NAHEE: Besides working here???

EMMA: In the store, I mean! I know you’re a business owner. I know you’re like, “...I don’t do anything besides work.”

NAHEE: Literally. So there are a lot of exciting things I’m planning to do, but I’ve already prototyped multiple events. My favorite so far was Anabada Sundays, inspired by a Korean movement from 1998 during the IMF crisis. People had to swap instead of buy. Entire families, whole communities. No consumerism, just exchange. It was a big thing.

EMMA: Which is funny because that concept is trending again, but I didn’t know the history behind it. I’m starting to see people adopt this mentality with closet sales, clothing exchanges… and I approve.

EMMA: This is a really special space. It’s cheesy, but I’ll say it… It really embraces you when you walk in. The first time I came in, it was raining, too, which totally set the scene.

NAHEE: That’s my ideal day. People always ask me about the rain. I chose it because it’s relatable to everyone, but personal to me.

EMMA: How did you find all the makers you feature in the shop?

NAHEE: There are all different channels. It’s the same way you shop for yourself. You look at a lot, you find a few. Someone found me by walking in. Others are from people I’ve known for years and have wanted to work with them for a long time; I was waiting for the right moment. Now it’s finally time to do it. It’s like they say, there are doors everywhere. You just don’t always know which one is knocking.

EMMA: At least you get to shop for your customers. I know so many people who would love to be in the business of shopping…

Nahee laughs.

NAHEE: …I also shop for myself.

EMMA: Of COURSE! You get first choice, unspoken rule.

NAHEE: Most of what we sell right now is new, but we utilize a lot of my vintage props. I’ve been holding on to a vintage archive I’ve collected over the past 10 years. I’ll sell it eventually, but I want to do it the right way, without rushing. I’m always trying to find the most honest way to do things. If I post something, if I release something, write something, or talk to someone…I ask myself, “What’s the most honest way?” Once I have that idea, I find the core and hold it in my heart. I take my time; I enjoy this little workspace.

EMMA: It reflects beautifully in everything in this store. Even your price tags. The perfume you made yourself that you sprayed on my receipt the first time I shopped here… There’s no rush here. I feel calm.

NAHEE: We need spaces like that sometimes.

Outside, a forklift screeches, a car horn blares, and two construction workers are trying to speak to each other from opposite sides of Essex Street.

EMMA: And then you walk outside and step right back into crazy. Whiplash.

EMMA: When you were picking a space, did you look at a lot of options?

NAHEE: I didn’t have too many options because my budget was tight. But I knew what I wanted, and I got lucky. It sounds crazy, but it’s a very spiritual thing. Once you walk in, you feel it. You can naturally imagine what you can do in each area. If a space doesn’t provoke that process in you, then it’s not for you.

EMMA: How fast did you go from keys to opening?

NAHEE: Three weeks.

EMMA: Damn you work fast.

NAHEE: Thank god for my friends, my biggest support. They showed up and stayed with me long nights to help.

A shopper walks in. He says he’s on break while working at Bode, around the corner. He tells us we look cute sitting at the table together. Another customer walks in, and Nahee and I both greet her, too.

EMMA: I’m the new greeter.

NAHEE: I think it’s you bringing in all this traffic. Have you ever worked in retail?

EMMA: No, but my work is very hospitality-forward. I have to meet and work with new people all the time, so I just try to speak with open arms, you know?

Nahee offers me some tea. The first time I came into her store, she was seated at this Sarangbang with friends, drinking tea and gossiping. I knew I wanted in. Yes, she had to teach me what a Sarangbang is.

EMMA: Is there anything in the store that you made?

NAHEE: Nothing at this moment, but the whole space is my creation. Every vintage item has a handwritten backstory taped to the wall next to it. I’m a creator, not a maker.

EMMA: It’s like walking into your mind. Without even knowing you well, I can very easily get a sense of who you are. What do you plan on doing with all the notes in that jar?

NAHEE: The Sunday Notes! It’s for the community, so anyone can come by and take a note or leave a note. I don’t touch it, but eventually I want to dive a little deeper, like a real pen-pal system. But it requires commitment and responsibility. People have to rely on each other, and if one person doesn’t do it, you feel bad for their partner. Only a few people could be invited because basically, once you’re in, you’re in. But there’s a right time for everything, so I’m still building and polishing my ideas every day, every second. I won’t rush it.

EMMA: Exactly. And you have space now. You don’t need to rush.

Jess giggles.

EMMA: Ok, SO. How did The Mandarin come to?

JESS: …. We needed Visas! Bart’s Dutch, and I’m Canadian. We were both on O-1s six years. Then came our seventh year, and we needed to make sure that we could stay in the community, so that’s how we did it. We opened on November 24th, 2024.

EMMA: Coming up on your one year!

JESS: Yes! We’ll throw a big party. Part of the visa requirement, called an E-2, requires you to prove to the government that you’re investing back into the country. Sooo, doing a coffee shop is easy, because the machine alone is $25,000.

EMMA: Did you ever think you wanted to do anything other than a coffee shop?

JESS: No. It was always the cafe. I had never been in service before, but always wanted to be.

Jess giggles again, because she knows damn well that’s crazy.

EMMA: Really? You’re a natural… (says me, clutching the grip of yet another gratis Mandarin Elixir).

JESS: Bart and I both love to eat and drink, so coming to this decision wasn’t difficult. The first time we applied, it was through my production company, which got denied. So then this solidified why the cafe concept needed to work. It was our only ticket out. We said, “We have to do this, we’re going to make it happen. We’re going to pour all of our money into it.” And that’s what happened.

JESS: The easy thing was deciding to start with coffee. As we establish ourselves, we’ll eventually add wine, beer, aperitivo. But never full-blown, because this is never meant to be a full-time thing for us. It’s meant to be our side project/passion.

EMMA: Which is crazy, and also so New York of you both. You’re like, “Oh, this old thing? Yeah, that’s just what I do on the side.”

JESS: We have a ten-year lease, so it’ll evolve over time, but we’re very happy for it to be this right now.

EMMA: I know you’re already working on potentially opening for beer, wine, and snacks..

JESS: Yes, 5-11 PM would be when the cafe would turn over. We don’t have a kitchen, so we won’t be here making overinvolved food. It would be aperitivo vibes.

EMMA: Which these windows are perfect for. They make me feel like I’m in a little greenhouse. All I want to do is sit here in the sun and drink coffee, an Elixir, and wine. In that order. Speaking of these windows, tell me about the design.

JESS: We partnered with Almost Studio. Low-key, we found them through an NYT article about young people revitalizing Chinatown. Sandy Liang was featured, and Almost had designed her store. We followed that rabbit hole, found their site, and immediately knew they were the ones. It was the right feeling from the start. They didn’t feel too corporate and they felt flexible, which was important for us, being first-time owners. After our first meeting, Bart and I knew. We didn’t need to interview anyone else.

EMMA: How long was that process?

JESS: We reached out at the end of 2023. In January 2024, we started design, in July, we started construction, and in November, we opened. Everyone knew that we needed our visas, so everyone stayed accountable to the timeline.

EMMA: And you’re a producer, so I already know you had that shit on lock.

JESS: That came in very handy.

EMMA: Yep.

JESS: When we bought this space, it was wrecked. These windows weren’t here; we just had this vision. This is what it looked like.

EMMA: Oh my god. So you two wanted to stay in NY real bad.

JESS: When you look at something like this, you’re super scared. But the funny thing is, it’s actually better for architects and contractors because everything’s already exposed. No surprises behind walls. Straight up, face value. You’re ready to go.

EMMA: Did you and Bart design it together?

JESS: Aesthetically, we had to find our Venn diagram.

EMMA: The Jess-Bart Venn diagram.

JESS: Exactly. Bart’s decisive but not visual. I love design, but had never done this. The architects had never done a cafe. So everyone brought something new. Our contractor, Armando, was also totally amazing; he saw the vision.

EMMA: Does Almost bring in the contractor, or you?

JESS: They helped us find three people to interview, and we went with Armando and his team. Everyone was really on board; this is truly all a collaboration. They’d propose ideas, I’d counter, Bart would weigh in, and I’d pull reference images. We met every Wednesday; I’d always have homework to prep the week before. They’d present updated plans at each meeting. With the bathroom, for example, I said, “I want sexy.”

EMMA: It is so peaceful, and so sexy.

JESS: They’d show ideas and I’d say, “Not sexy enough.” Then we’d unpack what sexy meant. Colors, textures, feeling.

EMMA: It is deep, it is rich, it is red. It’s the color of that bathroom.

As I turn around to marvel at the sexy bathroom, Jess notices me eying the speakers.

JESS: Bart’s a total music geek.

EMMA: Dream partner.

JESS: He takes care of all the tech, and also the filtration system, which is so important. We need to have good water to make good coffee.

EMMA: Who do you partner with for coffee?

JESSICA: Sey. We learned a lot from our coffee cart before this… beans, matcha, workflow, vendor relationships.

EMMA: Did you have to settle on a logo early on then?

JESS: Yes. Our design studio, Super Keen, helped bring our branding to life. Gabby and her team were amazing. We built this whole language together. Will it evolve a little more? Yeah, most likely. But it feels right.

EMMA: The whole setup feels very flexible. In a good way.

JESS: It was meant to be. All of it.

We both turn to admire what Jess and Bart have built. The baristas move in tandem, seamlessly interchanging between workflow and an ongoing stream of laughter.

EMMA: You guys have incredible staff.

JESS: A big part of building a business is making sure the staff feels a part of the journey. Madison helps develop recipes, Samuel helps with florals.

EMMA: And regulars!

JESS: The regulars carry the cafe. The neighborhood didn’t have something like this, so it’s learning how to handle it. Restaurants down the street come in for coffee, we get our change at the laundromat. We’re trying hard to be part of the community. It would be sad to alienate it completely, but we know we’re the new kids.

EMMA: That’s something every NYC neighborhood deals with. You’re like, “Hi, we’re new here. But we love you, and we’re all doing this together.”

JESS: Exactly. We also want to make sure it’s not stuffy. Our prices match the neighborhood. It wouldn’t make sense to charge triple just because other coffee shops do.

EMMA: And you’re following this model while still providing a really good product.

JESS: Yes. You know what’s scary? Everyone says summer in New York is dead. Well, August really was. You see it in the numbers and think, “What are we doing wrong?” Then September 1 hits…

EMMA: And smacks you in the face.

JESS: For real. You learn that it’s not you, it’s just the rhythm of the city. You keep doing the right thing. Now we’re rolling out our fall menu. Keeping it us, but fresh.

EMMA: I love your menu. It’s so crazy to me that this is your first year in hospitality. What are your star items?

JESS: Matcha. We had no idea that we would be a matcha bar.

EMMA: It’s almost like you knew, with the green wall… it all came together.

JESS: These are very Chinese colors: gold, green, lucky. “Mandarin” too - it’s a lucky fruit. Those are quiet nods to being Chinese without being a “Chinese cafe.” Bart’s not Chinese, and we didn’t want to box it in. So we didn’t expect to be known for matcha, but we’re very happy and proud of the product we serve.

EMMA: So… are you a matcha drinker or a coffee drinker?

JESS: Coffee drinker first. Matcha later in the day.

EMMA: Me too, through and through, babe. Anything upcoming that you’re excited about?

JESS: The wine and beer program. We applied early (ambitious, I know). It’s exciting but also a serious time commitment. When we first opened, we were here all day, every day. Adding nights will mean finding balance. What does that mean for our lives outside of the cafe? It’ll be exciting to see what we want to do with it.

EMMA: You’re a doer. You move quickly. That’s the producer in you. So I’m sure, like me, you’re constantly like, “What can I obsess over next?”

Jess giggles once more.

JESS: Yeah, so those are the things to look forward to.

EMMA: I would be looking forward to the same things.

EMMA: How did Reservations Only start?

OLIVIA: I’ve always loved shopping and clothes. I started working with vintage at 16 in high school, mainly leather and denim. I would upcycle and paint on things. That was the vibe at the time, and obviously, I’ve graduated since then. Also, my grandmother has always been kind of like a shopping addict.

EMMA: So on point for that era. My grandma was the same, obsessed with “things.” It’s sweet to look through her old stuff. It all felt more special then.

OLIVIA: Totally. I grew up in New Jersey, but my dad’s from the Bronx, my mom’s from Red Hook. I remember visiting my grandma in the Bronx when I was seven or eight and going shopping. My grandma would buy Uggs, True Religion jeans, whatever was cool at the time.

EMMA: Which is also cool right now.

OLIVIA: I feel like it never wasn't cool. My grandpa on my mom’s side also collects. A lot of his friends worked for the Department of Sanitation. He has a giant garage in Red Hook full of old cars, art, and things people throw away. All these items on the shelf are his.

EMMA: You’re literally in the family business.

OLIVIA: A collector. I grew up around people who collected and treasured things. I love the treasure hunt. In 2016 when I was upcycling, my friends wanted to buy the pieces I made, so I started selling. Then I added vintage tees and it took off. Back then, it was called OK Vintage (my initials are O.K.). I didn’t want to go to college, but I didn’t have a backup plan. I applied to Parsons for photography, got in, and thought it was gonna be a breeze. It was so fucking hard, but I liked it. At the same time, I started getting serious about vintage, although I was always doing it on the side. In 2018, 2019, vintage wasn’t what it is today. People didn’t know the difference between thrifting, vintage, and antique.

EMMA: What’s the difference?

OLIVIA: Thrift stores get donations, they’re not paying for inventory. Vintage is 20 years or older. Antiques are usually 40. In a thrift store you might see vintage, but also Zara, Shein, handmade things. People don’t always get it, but I understand that everyone has a different idea of what's expensive, what their style is, and not everyone cares about fashion history. Sometimes people will come in and they'll see those 2001 velvet Cavalli pants, and they're like, well, why the fuck are these $300. A lot of people hear “East Broadway Mall” and expect thrift prices.

EMMA: We have to comment on the East Broadway Mall, which I feel like is an integral part of your brand. If you know, you know.

OLIVIA: Totally. My vibe has also changed. I used to do upcycled leather and denim, then more Y2K. Before I opened the store, I was selling online, mostly designer vintage. Back then, you could find Moschino on The Real Real for $12. Now it’s harder. That’s why I focus on well-picked designer, maybe few niche European brands.

EMMA: Do you only buy what matches your personal taste?

OLIVIA: At first, I only chose pieces that were my style, but my style changes daily. I pulled things out of storage from last year and thought, like, wow. I'm not putting this out in my store. This is insane. But when you have a curated vintage store, you have to have a specific vibe, a specific curation. Otherwise, why come to me instead of any other vintage store in New York?

EMMA: For sure. I don’t know if your vibe is just my exact vibe or what, but when I come in here, it’s yes to everything.

OLIVIA: I try to have variety, but also pieces you can’t find anywhere else. My style of sourcing has changed, too. I used to sift through thrift stores for hours and leave with ten pieces if I was lucky. Now I don't do that as much. I travel to Europe a lot to stores that I like. I’ve met a lot of great people over the years who either have their own stores and are willing to sell to me, or people who have private collections and are getting rid of pieces.

EMMA: Say it to the people in the back. You’re putting in the work.

OLIVIA: I also try to keep pricing fair. Some stores price a YSL shirt at $800 when you can find it online for $300. I research everything.

EMMA: You're really good at subliminally teaching me about this whole subset of brands that I see on your racks and be like, oh, what's this? I’ll see something on your racks and suddenly it’s on my radar.

OLIVIA: You just were liking those Voyage pants, right? There's two very different types of people. Some people love learning about a new brand, and it makes them want it more. Others are like, I don't know this brand, it must not be cool enough and I'm not spending $200 on these pants.

EMMA: Tell me about your day-to-day. You’re one of the only ones in this mall open seven days a week (which is why I loved you from the beginning, because I was like ok, she grinds).

OLIVIA: I only recently did that. Last November I expanded, took over the space next door. Before, I was Wednesday to Sunday. Before that, appointments only. When I sold online, I kept my site updated with drops. That worked because I was in school—I had access to studios, cameras, friends who would model. With a physical store, it’s harder. I can shoot and measure 50 pieces, then by the time everything's uploaded, half the shit already sold.

EMMA: I think your social media is great. It pulls me in.

OLIVIA: Thanks. I recently hired a shop girl. She works two days a week, so that's when I can go out and about to try and do some sourcing in person or buy online.

EMMA: You also can't trap yourself in here all day, every day, or you'll lose that piece about yourself that makes this business. You need to go out and see things.

OLIVIA: Exactly. I love the mall dearly, it's such an amazing community. And we get incredible clientele, but there are no windows in here, no fresh air, no daylight. It can make you feel crazy. And now that I'm doing this rental archive…

EMMA: Tell me more about that. That’s the space across the hall, right? I think the concept is genius, but I'm curious what you think.

OLIVIA: I can tell you my thought process. Sometimes I find pieces for the store, and then I am like, wait. I can't sell this. This is too cool. This is too rare. Like, there's not another one out there. I don’t even want to wear them, I just want to own them. That’s how the idea started. I'm not renting for personal use right now. People will reach out for that, but I'm picky about who I work with, what stylists I work with, and what talents I work with. The shop makes money, but rentals grow the brand. Jenna Ortega’s stylist rented Marc Jacobs boots recently. That was awesome.

EMMA: Such a cool part of the industry. People don’t realize a stylist might rent something for one look, one night. That’s how much work goes into it, how hard people are working.

OLIVIA: Totally. After two and a half years here, I’ve built my own clientele. In the beginning, it was nice being near stores like James Veloria. They’ve been doing this forever, they’re one of the OGs. They have an incredible clientele. So I used to be gagged seeing celebrities just because it was cool to know that this place is on these people's radars.

EMMA: I love the vibe of the Mall and your shop. Do you curate a playlist?

OLIVIA: At first I curated playlists. Now it’s whatever—lately Sabrina Carpenter. I can't be playing anything too crazy, too sad, or something that could offend someone.

EMMA: Sabrina Carpenter radio is the mindset I want to be in to shop anyway.

OLIVIA: I've been putting on Hannah Montana lately (and love it), but so many people will be like, “Hannah Montana!!” And then we’ll start talking about it, and suddenly I’m having multiple conversations a day about her, which is too many.

EMMA: Hillary Duff is coming out with new music.

OLIVIA: Sounds perfect.

EMMA: Last time I came by you gave me a postcard, which I adored. I literally looked at it was like, wait did you draw this? And you did. Your logo, which is on all of the clothing tags, did you draw that too?

OLIVIA: My friend did the first one, but I drew the latest. When it comes to certain things, I'm never done. But I’m learning that not everything has to be perfect, and that’s okay.

EMMA: They say, start it first, make it perfect later.

OLIVIA: Exactly, and it's true.

EMMA: Anything new coming up?

OLIVIA: The archive. I haven’t officially launched it just yet.

EMMA: So that space across the hall will be like a showroom.

OLIVIA: Yes, that's going to be a showroom and I’m going to show it you. It's not finished, but I painted the walls green and the floors are pink. Let’s go look.

EMMA: This is SO fun. It even sort of has a window. Look at your bedazzled outlets… you're perfect.

OLIVIA: I always put on sparkles and glitter on everything.